Ginger

Eye of the Oracle prequel to Dragons in Our Midst

**This post is closed for comments.**

It pains me to have to write this. I was very disappointed in what I thought was going to be a very good series for us to read. I know some will think we are out of our minds and just too picky but we can’t be picky when it concerns something we feel is against God’s Word.

I know that we have posted about reading the Dragons in Our Midst series. We loved the first two books. Colleen started the series then read them to the boys out loud. It was during that time I became interested in the series. Hooked you might say. We were excited to pick up book three Circles of Seven along with the prequel which is also the first book in the Oracle series.

Eye of the Oracle was the first book in the series I read. I got to about the third chapter and had a funny feeling that there was something wrong. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it and decided to wait and read some of it to Randy to see if he could help me. I only read the first chapter out loud and he got the same nagging feeling. A couple of the names in the book rang a bell so we decided to look them up. Yes, we researched the names in the book.

While we were looking into this, I asked Colleen if she was going to bring book three on the way to piano to read. This was when she informed me that she had to quit reading book three, four chapters away from the end of the book. She put it down. She has explained why she felt she had to do this in her blog BirdWhisper.

My husband didn’t want me to finish reading the prequel. He said that after what we read I needed to put it away and was going to have to blog what I felt since I had all ready blogged about how much we liked the books. Even after reading what I had read I felt I needed to go back and reread the first few chapters. I ended up reading the whole book. Mr. Davis is an exceptional author. His ability to weave this story around the characters he chose is quite amazing. Especially considering the characters he chose. I know to many this will seem miniscule. To us, this is big. We have forsaken anything that has to do with this type of story. Fifty years ago you wouldn’t have found the shows on television that glorify witchcraft like you do today. Disney has several programs that make witchcraft look fun and enticing. It’s dangerous. Even if it’s used in a Christian fantasy fiction story.

The book opens with Lilith and Naamah being chased by the dragon Shachar. They were trying to sneak into the Garden of Eden to steal the fruit of the tree of life. Shachar is the dragon that protects the Garden. There is also a cherubim inside the garden guarding the Tree of Life with a sword that emits a beam of light protecting the tree. Lilith is married to Samyaza who is a fallen angel. She is able to steal some of her husbands power and by using this power becomes a wraith of sorts. Samyaza has gone back to the garden to steal his sword from the cherubim. Archangel Michael comes down and rescues the cherubim and the Tree of Life is taken back up into heaven. Michael tells Samyaza that the swords power will no longer work for him. That only someone of pure of heart can wield the power in the sword which is called the chereb. Later to become Excalibur.

All of this is taking place as the sky is darkening and the flood is about to begin. Noah is waiting for the two dragons, Makaido and Thigocia to come to the ark. They have been chosen to go into the ark as the last of the dragons. Lilith creates a plan to get Naamah onto the ark by conferring with Lucifer. Naamah enters the ark as the wife of Ham. Lilith and the Watchers (Fallen Angels) along with the Nephilim (giants born from the union of the sons of god and the daughters of man) are trying to get the oracle which is protecting the ark. A battle ensues between the dragons guarding the ark and the others just as the flood is taking place…..the heavens are pouring rain and the water from the deep is pouring out. Eventually a great whirlpool is created that kills (supposedly) all the evil that has come into the world. The whirlpool pulls the Nephilim, Watchers and one of the dragons into Tartarus.

Lilith’s body dies in the flood. Her body dies. She has all ready prepared herself for this to happen back at the beginning of the book while she and Naamah are hiding from Shachar by taking a potion and some kind of magic spell. When her body dies she is able to become a raven. This is how SHE gets onto the ark. In the form of a raven. She eventually needs Naamah’s help and talks her into throwing herself off the ark while they are looking for land. Naamah throws herself into the water and drowns after having taken a potion and being promised eternal beauty and the ability to lure men with her songs. She then becomes a raven in order to help Lilith with her plan to bring Noah down so to speak.( This is only the first couple of chapters and it is a 600 page book. This book is for teens and young adults.)

When you get further into the book you start reading about the circles or realms. There are seven circles. Lilith is now calling herself Morgan (Morgan le Fey, King Authur’s half sister).There is so much more to this book. I couldn’t give you enough of a synopsis to do justice to the story.

As we were reading, we recognized a couple of the names. Lilith. Lilith has a long history in pagan religion beginning with the early Mesopotamians. She is also the first wife of Adam. you must understand that Judaism teaches that there were two Adams. She is represented in many places and all of them evil. In the Church of Satan she is represented in her Kabbalistic Zohar role as the wife of Samael (Satan). Everywhere she appears she is linked with evil. That fits with her character in the book. He does present the story that good always triumphs over evil. I don’t mean to imply that only evil wins.

Naamah.Naamah is also mentioned with Lilith in many of the pagan histories. She uses her songs to plant fear and doubt. Naamah is also reputed to be one of the wives of Satan and a succubus.

Samyaza along with the Watchers are both fallen angels. Samyaza aka Samael is also known as Lucifer or Satan.

Nephalim. Tartarus.

The underlying story here runs along the line of the Apocryphal books of Judaism and the Zohar or Kabbalah. (This is not Madonna’s version of Kabbalah.) The more names and places that we looked up, the more mysticism and occult we found.

There is the potential to confuse these stories with what is actually written in the bible especially pertaining to the flood and the time after dealing with King Nimrod and the Tower of Babel. My youngest son looked perplexed and said he didn’t recall any of that with the story of Noah. Therein lies the problem. To one who is not proficient in there biblical stories this could easily become mixed in with what is written in scripture. Some are more susceptible than others to stories of demons and such and can feel the pull into distorting this from fact and fiction.

We face enough of a spiritual battle(Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.) that we don’t need to open our minds and that of our children up to more than what we are all ready inundated with. In Deuteronomy 18:9-13 we see what God wrote to His people…..

(9 ) When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

(10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

(13) Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

Man’s own evil/sin fallen nature provides us with enough fertile ground to come up with stories that we should be able to write them with out including the magic and demons and such.

We won’t be reading the rest of the books. We cannot read the rest of the books.

Remember that EVERY time Satan attacks, he uses a subtle twisting of what God had said, and we should NEVER do anything that could confuse us or cause doubt that would allow him to get a foothold.

Our families face a spiritual battle everyday. We all do…..God warns us to protect our eyes from what we see and what we hear and what we do…..it isn’t an open warfare it is practiced with subtlety. It doesn’t take much to get a foot hold in the door before we are sitting back and asking ourselves what happened.

I know that I will face ridicule over this…..but I have to do what I feel is right. In case you are wondering….no….we don’t read the Harry Potter books either.

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February 3, 2008 - Posted by | Attitude, Bible Study, Blogs, Books, Boys, Child Training, Children, Christianity, Daughter, Faith, Family, Just Life, Morality, Observances, Obstacles, Religion, Religious

30 Comments

  1. I’m disappointed as I really want my children to read good biblically based fiction so we won’t be reading them either. One of my issues with the Potter books, is that it makes magic look acceptable and it is not. That would be a major problem with me.

    I applaud your posting of this, I know how hard it must have been for you to have to write it seeing as how much you had enjoyed the first two books.

    Thank you….you and I have all ready discussed where you are coming from so I do understand.

    Comment by celticmuse | February 3, 2008

  2. It is hard to recend approval and admit when you have been wrong about something, in this case a series of books. Bravo on your speaking out your thoughts and being honest both when you enjoyed the first two and when you saw the series going astray.

    Thank you for the warning bells.
    Ber

    Comment by Wings | February 3, 2008

  3. I appreciate your desire to protect your family from evil influences. As a Christian father of seven, I share your concern. This is exactly why I wrote “Eye of the Oracle.”

    In this story, every person who practices magic or engages in the occult is clearly shown to be evil, so it in no way makes magic look acceptable. In fact, it shows the opposite. So my story clearly aligns with the Deuteronomy passage you quoted.

    The Ephesians passage is also honored. The story shows that there are principalities and powers to be battled, and my story shows that they exist. The heroes battle them and conquer by the power of God.

    Regarding potential confusion between biblical reality and fiction, such a problem can potentially arise with any fiction. This is a fantasy story. It doesn’t pretend to be true. I do embellish the biblical story with many “what if” scenarios, but I in no place contradict the Bible or any of its principles. In fact, I honor biblical principles at every turn.

    If children are too young to understand that this is a fantasy, and if they are susceptible to confusion, then they shouldn’t read this book, or any other fiction.

    I think you would be amazed at how many young people have been drawn closer to God through this story and even become Christians. Many have departed from Satanic or occult practices, abandoned suicidal thoughts, and dug deeper into the Scriptures. I could provide you with an overwhelming number of testimonies to that effect. Are you able to give me examples of readers who have had the opposite effect?

    To regard my book as similar to an attack by Satan is quite an insult, especially when made against a story that brings honor to God as this one does. I hope you will reexamine your thoughts and retract your comments.

    Thank you for leaving a comment Mr Davis. I will be be responding to you and the many other commenters after I have slept on this and prayed about it.

    Comment by Bryan Davis | February 3, 2008

  4. Hm. Interesting.

    No, I do not believe you will face ridicule. But you will find a number of people ready to refute your statements.

    If you had continued reading the book, you would have found that Lilith (a.k.a Morgan Le Fay) and Naamah (Elaine) are the villains of the story. Evil often dabbles in that which is evil.

    Samyaza is a fallen angel, hence why he uses witchcraft. Morgan is his wife, and a sorceress herself. And actually, Samyaza is listed as a Watcher in a book referenced by Biblical sources. Not as Lucifer himself. Were he, Mr. Davis would not have used the name for the demon.

    But there is a big difference between any sorcery in this book and other novels (Such as Harry Potter): it is clearly defined as evil. Even my eight year old sister knew that much.

    The evil forces in Bryan’s works are truly evil. They’re not mostly evil, with a smattering of good. But evil, through and through.

    Per the books deviating from Biblical stories, not quite. Genesis doesn’t record every detail concerning Noah’s ark and the Tower of Babel. We don’t know the names of Noah’s son’s wives. Neither do we know all that went on with Babel fell.

    The story is classes as fantasy fiction. Fiction being a story which, in most cases, is not historical or factual in its entirety. Mind you, factual in this case meaning that it really happened. If you are declaiming the books because the Bible doesn’t spell out that exact rendition of the stories, you really have to discredit historical fiction as well.

    I appreciate your sensitivity for that which is base and harmful Christ’s people. But at the same time, I would urge you to take a closer look.

    Sincerely,
    Holli

    Comment by Holli | February 3, 2008

  5. I have to disagree with you. Mr. Davis’ books in no way glorify witchcraft, but quite the opposite. He shows evil for what it truly is, and show that it does indeed exist. The books also show how, through the Power of God, we can fight that evil, and overcome it.

    These books do not pretend to be fact. Mr. Davis is not “adding” to the Scriptures in anyway. This is fiction. It is fantasy. Mr. Davis merely embellishes, but the integrity of the characters and Biblical principles remain intact.

    Bryan Davis is a great friend of mine, and it hurts to see his books insulted like this. These books, and the testimony of Bryan Davis, have changed my life. I have a much better viewpoint on Scripture, and on Christ Himself. These books remind me that God loves me, that He takes care of His children, no matter what comes their way.

    I beg you to reconsider your views and your thoughts. Mr. Davis’ books honor God and the Bible more than any of I’ve come into contact with.

    Comment by Connie | February 3, 2008

  6. I must respectfully disagree with you. Mr. Davis’s books are the most Christian books I have ever come across. In Eye of the Oracle, virtues like love and loyalty and absolute trust in God are promoted. Things like witchcraft and the occult are portrayed as evil and are vanquished in the end. This book is built on a firm Christian foundation, and will not lead Christians astray. With respect for your opinion, I ask you to please reconsider.

    Comment by Mr. Davis's biggest fan | February 3, 2008

  7. Hi Ginger,

    I came across your blog entry and I wish to speak up in Mr. Davis’ defense.

    You bring up Lilith, Naamah, the Watchers, and the Nephilim, but you only object to their inclusion. You sound as if you are objecting to the mere presence of demons in Eye of the Oracle, but by that standard, we could not even read the Bible. What is the difference between the way the Bible depicts evil and the way Mr. Davis does? There is none. Nothing evil is glorified. You haven’t provided an example of a heroic character engaging in paganism or the witchcraft you’ve condemned. How does this conflict with Deuteronomy 18? It says, “don’t do these things.” Please show us how this command is broken by Mr. Davis’ story.

    And I doubt there is great potential to confuse the events in EOTO with the real stories in the Bible. You can name many works of fiction that have “side stories” to real-life events, and obviously there is not widespread confusion as to the true history. That standard would practically wipe out the fantasy genre, most novels and comic books. We learn early on in our lives what “make believe” is. EOTO isn’t pretending to be an appendix to the Bible, so why would anyone treat it as such?

    Having corresponded with Mr. Davis on his messageboard and email, I know him to be one with a pure heart and purpose when it comes to giving children Godly heroes and role models and having them conquer sin and find and attain righteousness. I’ve read all the DIOM/OOF books to date, and there is not the barest hint of witchcraft or paganism being set up as something attractive. With all due respect, you’re being overly sensitive at what you’re seeing on the surface without looking at the story’s context. I respect your opinion, but I believe you’re misrepresenting a good piece of fiction, and I do find it offensive that you’re depicting my friend’s writing as a tool to confuse and mislead readers from the truth. Please rethink your words.

    Comment by Jason (G.O.) | February 3, 2008

  8. I must repectfully disagree with you. Eye of the Oracle is one of the most Christian books I’ve ever read! Good morals, trust in God, and salvation are promoted while witchtcraft and the occult are portrayed as wicked and are defeated. Eye of th Oracle was written on a very solid, Biblical foundation and will not lead believers astray. With respect, I ask you to please reconsider your stance.

    Comment by Denae | February 3, 2008

  9. I, too, must disagree. I understand where you make your point, but I believe that, when you say Mr. Davis embellishes on the scriptures, you are possibly embellishing on Mr. Davis’ books. He has not expressed in his books views that would glamorize witchcraft. I learned of Christ through the DIOM and Oracles of Fire series and have not mistaken any of the characters’ actions to be exactly or, sometimes, even close to what actually happened. If not for his books, I may never have known or believed in the Lord.

    Comment by T | February 3, 2008

  10. I mean no disrespect, but I must disagree with you. Mr. Davis’s books in no way make Witchcraft look enticing. In fact, all of the people who practice it in the book(s) state how they wish they had never done any of it, but they are too deep now and cannot go back without much sacrifice. I’ve seen this happen in real life. It has deeply affected the families and friends and themselves, but God offers us healing and forgiveness, and Mr. Davis’s book(s) explain that very throughly. Do you let your children read The Chronicles of Narnia or The Lord Of The Rings or The Space Trilogy? The same situations happen there. Again, I mean none of this in disrespect, but please reconsider. Mr. Davis’s books have affected peoples lives and I’ve talked to them about it. They are truly wonderful stories.

    Comment by Actress007 | February 3, 2008

  11. As you know, I have read all of the books that are out right now. I was very concerned with my children reading this story. I started out reading “The Eye of the Oracle” aloud to all the kids. I read & “censored” much of the first chapter and was not able to continue reading to them. I finished the book. I did have several moments where I was unsure of the story, but wherever I had those moments I pulled out my bible and read the story and did some research there. Mr. Davis did resolve the issues that I had concern with. There is a lot of imagery in the stories. When I finished the book I had DH read it and we discussed it. We are ok with the books….for us! I don’t think any of our kids will be reading them any time soon. They won’t understand much of the story.

    I admire you for sharing all of this. You brought up some things that I had not found in the story. We will be doing some more research….but I do agree that these books are written for Teen/Adult readers. But if you are convicted about these books, I agree that you should be done with them. God speaks to us all differently.

    I knew you read them. That’s why I was curious and called you. I was asking you how the rest of the series went. Wanted to get another take on the books. I can’t tell you how upset Colleen was. Thank you for saying what you did even though you and Dan may not necessarily agree with me….I appreciate it. I do have a valid reason. I am in the process of writing it out in the hopes that I can better articulate what I want to say.

    Comment by missplacedalaskan | February 3, 2008

  12. And I too must disagree. You are right that we must stand firm against Satan and his deceit – I understand where you are coming from. However, Mr.Davis’ books are not tricks or lies. They are fiction.

    Ever read “The Chronicles of Narnia”? It does not endorse witchcraft, sorcery, or evil even though those things exist within its pages. Wrong is clearly shown to be wrong. So it is with “Dragons In Our Midst” and “Oracles of Fire”. They are books showing struggles against evil – with God, Christianity, and righteousness being victorious and portrayed as Truth. (Also, “The Chronicles of Narnia” could be believed by young children to be real. It isn’t. It never claimed that it was.) The Bible itself also mentions the Devil, demons, sorcery, and many other evil things.

    If you sincerely find Mr.Davis’ books to be a stumbling block to you, then there is no wrong in not reading them. However, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who’s lives have been changed for the better because of him. As I can speak only for myself, I will tell you that his books drew me much closer to God. They portrayed the beauty and desirability of innocence and rigteousness. They showed how God loves us and cares for us. They showed his awesome power. They were only made better by the fact that they fit so well into what occured in the Bible. His books gave me ways to talk to God as if he were right there with me. These are only a very few amount of things that his books showed and did to me and for me. God works through these books. I can honestly say that Mr.Davis’ books helped to shape me into a real Christian.

    Respectfully, I ask that you retract your statements against him and his works. Do you deny that his books have helped many people draw closer to Jesus?

    (Oh, and also, things mentioned in his book are sometimes mentioned in the Bible – not just secular sources. I.E. See Genesis 4:22, Genesis 6:4, Numbers 13:33)

    Comment by Hannah | February 3, 2008

  13. I can’t state my disagreements better than the others did.

    But I can say this. Before I read Mr. Davis’ books, I called myself a Christian, but my faith has grown to so much more after reading his books. And, I’m stronger in it than I ever was before.

    Comment by Roheryn | February 3, 2008

  14. As I read through all of the people who commented, I realize that I cannot disagree with your statements more. Everyone who has defended Mr. Davis above has done a wonderful job, and I have little else to say.

    I urge you to stop and pray – really pray – about what your standards for right and wrong are. God is working wonders through the writings and actions of Bryan Davis, and I have the privilege of seeing and experiencing the works of God through him every day. Not only have I grown in my faith by reading the ‘Dragons in our Midst’ and ‘Oracles of Fire’ series, I have come to face and challenge my faith and trust in Christ. I became saved through Bryan Davis, and that in itself is a truly miraculous thing.

    I am not trying to bring you down in any way, I merely believe that you have read wrong. What God was telling you, I do not know. You had a feeling that something was wrong, and I admire you for defending your faith against evil. But there is a fine line between guarding your faith against evil and not accepting the truth.

    I strongly encourage you to talk this out with God. After all, He is the one who motivated Bryan to write these books.

    If I have offended anyone in any way, you have my sincere apologies.

    -Reader

    Comment by H0rs3yg4l | February 4, 2008

  15. I appreciate everyones opinion and comments left so far. I also appreciate that you have kept them respectful of my opinion. I am going to comment in another blog post after I have had time to prayerfully consider what I need to do. I will address any of the points left here in that post.

    Comment by gingerporter | February 4, 2008

  16. Yes, I will not sugar-coat my post. Though, I tell you I am not trying to be rude, but tell the truth.

    ——
    Man’s own evil/sin fallen nature provides us with enough fertile ground to come up with stories that we should be able to write them with out including the magic and demons and such.

    You are completely missing the point. He didn’t WANT this book to be a: Oh, goody! Let us make a Sugar-Coated example of the Bible.

    He is not, might I say, in ANY way, making evil good. I think you missed the whole idea for it. Did you not look at the cover and read: (I know, it is in small print, but hey, it explains ALOT) Bryan’s books have become bestsellers in the field of YOUTH (I think that means teens) Christian FANTASY (which means, it is kinda like NARNIA). So, after you have read the first chapter, you would have guessed that it is not a ‘Lets-sit-down-with-our-four year old-daughter-and-read-this’ type of book. You must know that I am not trying to be mean and all, but it was a depressing blog entry. VERY depressing. Did you even attempt to read the whole book? Maybe, if you didn’t, you would have found that he was not encouraging Evil, but not sugar-coating it either. You must see by now, that Sugar-Coating is my favorite word for this complaint-thingy, because the book isn’t sugar-coated.

    All of the people before me, and might I say, their posts were amazing, addressed everything I wanted to talk on, so just read their posts, and that is completely what I wanted to say.

    I know Mr. Davis, not personally, but talked to him, and he would NEVER mis-interpret the Bible, purposly.

    ———–
    In case you are wondering….no….we don’t read the Harry Potter books either.
    —————

    What does Harry Potter have to do with this? That is in a COMPLETELY different area. Harry Potter PRAISES witch-craft.

    ———–
    God warns us to protect our eyes from what we see and what we hear and what we do….
    ————-

    So, are you pointing that devolping more Christian attitudes, which you CAN, believe or not, in this book, is wrong? You should hide your eyes from it? What? He is not, I repeat again, NOt making evil good. Please, PLEASE seriously pray about this, I hope God directs you in the right way.

    Comment by Tippie | February 4, 2008

  17. I have read the comments left here. I have no fault with what anyone has said, or not said. I should mention that I have not read these books nor have my children as this is not a subject matter that interests us.

    That said I do feel that each person must do what is best for their family as God Directs. What He tells me is SIN for me He may not be saying for anyone else. I do not know what God has told to anyone else is sin only what He’s told me.

    None of us know the relationship that Ginger and her family have with God. We do not know all that has happened in their lives (even those of us who may know the family don’t know all that has or is happening). We may not understand why Ginger and her husband feel God wanting them to discontinue reading these books but we should respect their decision.

    Ginger, I look forward to reading your response to those who disagree with your decision. Many hugs to you all.

    Thank you Elaine…..yes, you did bring out a valid point. What God may direct one to do may not be an issue with another. This is not always a lesson easily learned or understood by many Christians today. I hope to have my post up later tonight….hopefully by tomorrow. I am not rushing this one and want to make sure that I have carefully and diligently prayed over this so that it will glorify and honor God.

    Comment by Elaine | February 4, 2008

  18. Well said, Elaine! That is exactly what I was trying to say at the end of my post. God convicts & speaks to each one of us differently. We need to follow HIS leading for our lives. We don’t live in a “One size fits all” world!

    Comment by missplacedalaskan | February 4, 2008

  19. Hello there,
    I posted a comment on your daughter’s blog presenting my opinion on Mr. Davis’s books and I don’t really have time type it all out again so I will let you read my opinion there if you’d like to.

    Everything I say is meant in love. For your family, for Mr. Davis, and most of all, for God. I could have stayed out of this all by merely minding my own buisiness, but I want to let you know first hand how God has used these books to help people and change their lives for the better.

    Love in Christ,
    Jess

    Jess, I left you a comment on my daughter’s blog. It is in the comment that you posted. Thank you for posting.

    Comment by Jess | February 4, 2008

  20. Ok…if you think Bryan Davis’s books are bad, I guess you think veggietales was made by an athiest… Dragons in our Midst and Oracles of Fire are some of the most Christian books I’ve ever read.

    Those things you’re talking about are even in the Bible, so if you won’t read these books because you say they have bad things in them, will you read the Bible?

    Comment by Anonymous | February 4, 2008

  21. I read through my post again, and I realize it was a bit disrespectful. Please know that I did not mean it to be so rude. I guess it just came out that way.

    Please forgive me for being so rude. 🙂

    I am sorry, I hope you will be in serious prayer though.

    Comment by Tippie | February 4, 2008

  22. Ginger, thanks for your reviews. I must admit, all this to and froing in your blog has piqued my interest enough to want to read these books. I admire your tenacity and your ability to stand by your convictions. Having not yet read the books I can’t really comment either way about Mr. Davis’s intent upon writing the books. I do agree with the statements that we can’t sugar coat everything. Even God didn’t do that, but he didn’t always give us every little detail either.

    I also think that you are right to stand firm when you get that prickly feeling in your gut. If it feels wrong for you, chances are it is.

    There’s also a thing called personal taste. Even some of the best written books will not appeal to every body. It’s a matter of choice, tastes and convictions.

    One thing though, people keep alluding to all these bad things in the bible, the difference is that though God did not sugar coat, he did not go into any great details either. It was implied rather than stated in many cases. (I could be wrong….I will admit to not being the most devout Bible reader, I do spend time with the Lord’s words, but not conventionally….that’s a whole other topic) I don’t remember who it was, I think it was Ber? who said that she likened the words of the Bible to that of a parent. God has spelt out certain things, (the ground rules) other things he has alluded to, like we do with our children. We tell them everything we can, but in age appropriate portions. You don’t tell a curious six year old about the mechinactions of sex, that’s too much information too soon. God is our father. He only told us that which we needed to know and that which we could understand.

    I still think I need to read them for myself before I can make a valid comment, but when it comes to imploring you to rethink your stance, no, I will never do that. Your convictions are what you make you, you. And the thing I have always admired most in you, is your ability to stand by how you feel. Even if you change your mind. You do that with convinction too.

    Your Welcome Bekki…..don’t take my word for it. You need to read the books for yourself. Not everyone will have the same issues I have/had with the story. Up to this point it was only with the one book. I will be explaining my reasons in another post. I wanted to seek Godly council and pray diligently over this. I have all ready opened a can of worms. I am prepared to address everyones comments but not till I have my ducks in a row. The books are very well written. That’s why I was a little disappointed. He is an exceptionally good author with talent. You will have to let me know what you think….like I said many will not have the same issues I have. I also have some extenuating circumstances that will make everything clear.

    Comment by tessofthebellgrades | February 4, 2008

  23. I am going to post my rant again, but I will rewrite it. I did seem rude and I would like you to, if you can, delete my above rant. Or just ignore it…this will be more respectful, and that makes me feel better, please realize I was not thinking straight when I wrote that rant and it seemed very rude, and NOT at all what I wanted it to come out as. Please read this over, it shall be better, I hope. 😛

    :

    I really think you need to read the whole book before you can judge it. I would strongly recomend reading it again, and then deciding and praying fervantly over what you think. I personally thought the books did not promote witchcraft, btu denoted it. In Harry Potter (no I have not read it), they make witchcraft out to be cool. Mr. Davis does not in any way, to me, make it out to be alright to do. I understand your worries, I would also suggest that if you have children under 13 and they have a hard time understanding some things, that you should not read it to them. I do know there are some children, take for example my sisters, who can understand stuff such as this.

    It is fantasy, so you must realize that you do not take this as a real life thing. But some things in his story were in the Bible, and therefore happened.

    I thank you for reading this, and I want you to understand that I am FULLY sorry for my last post. It did seem rude, and I am very sorry.

    Apology accepted. Thank you… 🙂

    Comment by Tippie | February 4, 2008

  24. Thank you for forgiving me. I was very angry at myself for posting that. I hope you and your husband will prayer-fully look into this matter. 🙂

    Comment by Tippie | February 4, 2008

  25. Ginger,

    I just want to give you a (((HUG))). And thank you for standing up for what you believe in. Not a lot of people do that and I respect you wholeheartedly for it. I will be praying with you as you pray about what you want to say. And know, I support you and that what you believe in and how you feel is your right and your right to protect your family. Noone has your relationship with Our Father and it is yours alone. Protect it and keep it and nourish it.

    Love,

    Bobbie

    Thank you Bobbie…..I was feeling a little lonely out here…..He has more fans than I have friends I think……. 😛

    Just kidding though…..It has been a long day….I have sought Godly council and researched as much as I could….I guess after I put the kids to bed….I will sit down with pen in hand and write. Then sleep on it….read what I have written…then type it in….that sounds good to me…. 🙂

    Randy however…..hmmm…his baby was attacked. A teen trying to find her feet in her faith. An adult should have known better and appreciated that she is trying. Not told her she is harming the God’s work. This has been a good experience for her. I have held her back from answering in the typical teen age fashion and told her that any response from her must be said with all humility and love as being spoken to other brothers and sisters in Christ. She has done a good job….she just needs to correct her spelling before I let her post it… 🙂

    Comment by Bobbie | February 4, 2008

  26. I see your points Ginger (or at least I think I do) ;). Your post is somewhat long and I think I read every word. This is what I got from it.

    1. No need to introduce youth to researchable evil such as Lilith and the others.
    2. No need to inject fiction into Bible stories.

    And I wanted to add my support to you for being a good mom. I also applaud your daughter for stopping reading book 3 and using her own discernment in doing so. 🙂

    Sorry about it being so long…..and yes that is about it in a nutshell. Maybe you should write my next post… 😛
    Thank you for both….. 🙂

    Comment by Donna | February 4, 2008

  27. If you agree with the statement, “No need to inject fiction into Bible stories.”, I take it you also disagree with VeggieTales, StoryKeepers and the like.

    Comment by Melissa | February 4, 2008

  28. Please don’t take any of this as an attack, G. I truly admire your family’s desire to keep your minds from evil. But your conclusions about Mr. Davis’s books are wrong.

    Ginger, you’re talking as though Lilith, Naamah, Samyaza, and all the other people in Bryan Davis’s books who practice sorcery and witchcraft are the good-guys. That is not the case at all. These people are the bad-guys of the story. The villains. The people NOT to imitate. Throughout the books, their arts are portrayed as something to AVOID, not at all something that you’d want to practice. Of course, if you only read from Lilith and Naamah’s point of view you can see what they find alluring about it, but if you read more in Bryan Davis’s books you can see by the example of the characters that practicing magic and such will only lead to death and destruction.

    Comment by ABL | February 4, 2008

  29. […] a post on her blog (which has since been removed) and her mom recorded a post on her blog (Ginger’s Blog post) as well.  What ensued was an attack by the author (which to me shows some real insecurity) on a […]

    Pingback by An Unjustifiable Attack « The Imponderable One | February 5, 2008

  30. I think you’re reading the books LOOKING for problems with it. When you do something with your kids, you do that more, because you don’t want them to see or hear something bad. There IS nothing bad about the books. You can argue with that all you want, but you’re wrong.

    No…you are wrong. I wasn’t looking for anything. I expected what I read in the first two books. There are those who need to know how he mixed the biblical with the mystical in THAT book.

    I had nothing to do with my daughter’s opinion. I do watch over my children. As a parent, my job is guide them into being able to use discernment in their own lives. Which apparently I have done. Part of allowing ones children to grow up is to allow them to make their own decisions. She has learned early that she needs to trust God and seek His will first. We actually encourage the kids to think for themselves. We encourage them to research for themselves to take no ones word as gospel or written in stone. As does our preacher when it comes to studying God’s Word. When your heart is open to the “still small voice of God’s calling” no matter what your age you can choose to listen or ignore. My daughter chose to listen to her own heart. I wasn’t searching for anything wrong……wasn’t expecting anything to be wrong. But I found error.

    Comment by Anonymous | February 5, 2008


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